In this episode, Heidi Brooks talks with Robin Dembroff who invites us to notice the confining, prescriptive categories we get boxed into and the opportunity to maybe name or nudge our way to a more enlivened self.
Robin challenges us to see gender fundamentally as a verb rather than a noun–an active, ongoing process of “gendering” rather than an immutable, biological trait. By looking at the “windshield of consciousness” that shapes our worldview, Robin deconstructs traditional ideas of patriarchal leadership, showing how the unattainable myth of the “real man” acts as a destructive standard that causes suffering for everyone.
Together, Heidi and Robin share why learning through experience is critical to exploring a key aspect to both of their work – exploring the relational impact on the self. Robin explains why denying dualism and leaning into somatic body awareness are essential to their classroom. Heidi bridges this practice of self-cultivation with everyday leadership, highlighting the tension between consequence-based decision-making and a deeper, inside-out logic of commitment.
This episode is an invitation to experiment with noticing the environments shaping your sense of self, creating the room to thrive by freeing yourself up and freeing each other up.
Check out Robin Dembroff’s new book, Real Men on Top: How Patriarchy Shapes Our Reality. Learn more about Robin’s work as an associate professor of philosophy at Yale University.
Show notes:
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0:00 – Origins: We begin by exploring Robin’s journey growing up isolated in evangelical farmland, and the profound, early realization that gender identity is relational and fragile, not a fixed characteristic possessed inside the body.
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8:02 – Gender as a Verb: We wrestle with Robin’s concept of “gendering” as an active process. Robin offers us the frame of looking at our “windshield of consciousness” rather than just blindly looking through it, inviting us to question the stories and language that confine us.
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33:25 – Philosophy as an Embodied Practice: We share our pedagogical stance that learning doesn’t stop and end in the mind. Robin discusses the denial of dualism, surfacing the idea that true philosophical inquiry requires somatic awareness—starting with the body, breathing, and listening before ever moving to debate.
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39:05 – Unlearning the Classroom: We get into details of how we each create spacious learning environments, moving away from evaluation and fear to using journaling and peer grading to invite students to tap into their own desires and agency.
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51:30 – Leadership & Patriarchal Systems: We look at the intersection of sense of self and institutional decision-making. We name the tension between a transactional, consequence-based logic of “more, better, faster” (often tied to the patriarchal myth of the “real man”) and a deeper logic of commitment rooted in personal values.
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59:10 – Analog in an AI World: Finally, we explore why human, analog practices—like handwritten letters and meditative walks in a cemetery—are a vital, AI-proof container for sitting with ourselves and metabolizing our experiences into wisdom.
“The Yale School of Management is the graduate business school of Yale University, a private research university in New Haven, Connecticut.”
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